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ㄅㄆㄇㄈ really suks
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ala -
Quote:
Originally Posted by cometrue
Let’s see what we can discover from your examples:
Quote:
ㄠ(ie, ye) ↠也 (ye)
actually it's from 世
No, it is from 也, which is a gliding i+ei sound /iê/. 世 is shi in modern Mandarin, si in
Shanghainese, and se in Japanese. There is no gliding vowel in 世. All mainland and Taiwanese
interpretations for ㄠhas been 也 since when Zhuyin was published. On the other hand, the
Japanese hiragana 㛠se comes from 世.
Quote:
regulation is the more square, the more beutiful, but the hiragana and katakana are really like
bunch of freaks, i would say the reform is failed and without logic.
FYI hiragana and katakana are not Chinese characters, and were never meant to substitute Chinese
characters. Zhuyin symbols are not Chinese characters either, and were intentionally altered to be
different from the characters. So how can they be "ugly freaks" if they are not part of the same
script? My point is that they were derived though from the original characters (either existing or
obsolete), and had a rationale for their selection. By your senseless argument, pinyin beside
Chinese characters is just as freakish, if not more. You are comparing apples with oranges and
calling the oranges freaks.
Quote:
I don’t know any Japanese, but I know a little bit calligraphy of è‰ä¹¦, so let me guess where
are the fr**k from:
ã‚â†å®‰ ãˆâ†å…ƒ ãŠâ†æ–¼ ゃâ†ä¹Ÿ ã‚…â†åŠŸ ãâ†é¦– ã¨â†ä¸Š ã«â†ä» ã¬â†å¥´
ãâ†æ”¶oræ•° ã®â†å››orçš„
ãµâ†ä¸ ã¯â†å¾· ã‚â†å¥³ ã‚‚â†æ¯›or色 ã‚‹â†ç™¾or为 I m not sure if it's accurate, feel
free to correct.
You are wrong for ãˆ, ゆ, ã, ã¨, ã, ã®, ã¯, ã‚‹. The hiragana symbols come from Chinese
characters with very similar pronounciation. ã‚‚=mo=毛, ã=ne=祢, ゆ=yu=ç”±, ゃ = ya=也, ãµ
= fu=ä¸ (originally /pu/), ã‚‹ = ru=ç•™,　㾠= ma=末, 㤠= tsu=å·, ã«=ni=ä» (in
å´è¯çš„文读，ä»ã€€is still ni).
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Lu -
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithsgj
It's a tool for teaching kids to learn to read and a computer input technique for heavens' sake
not some important cultural model that captures 五åƒå¹´çš„æ·å². I mean they're hardly going to
get all dewy-eyed and start singing the national anthem over a bunch of nasty little Japanesey
squiggles.
It sets them apart from the mainland, that's the cultural/political thing. It has nothing to do
with 五åƒå¹´çš„历å²ï¼Œ it is about Taiwan against China.
ala -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lu
Quote:
Originally Posted by smithsgj
It's a tool for teaching kids to learn to read and a computer input technique for heavens' sake
not some important cultural model that captures 五åƒå¹´çš„æ·å². I mean they're hardly going to
get all dewy-eyed and start singing the national anthem over a bunch of nasty little Japanesey
squiggles.
It sets them apart from the mainland, that's the cultural/political thing. It has nothing to do
with 五åƒå¹´çš„历å²ï¼Œ it is about Taiwan against China.
If that is your logic, then it was the PRC that wanted to be set apart from the Republic of China.
Zhuyin Fuhao was first developed by the 讀音統一會 Commission on the Unification of
Pronunciation set up by the new Republican government in 1912-1913 based off ç« ç‚³éºŸ Zhang
Binglin's shorthands. It was officially proclaimed in 1918. Zhuyin fuhao was an immediate step
following the fall of Qing; and was an indispensible part of modern
Chinese language reforms
started around that time. Shortly later, Gwoyeu Romatzyh (國語羅馬å—, later called
è¯éŸ³ç¬¦è™Ÿ) was also invented (and officially sponsored by the government) as a less ambiguous
transcription system for westerners and their library catalogs in 1926 by the Republican
Government University 國民政府大å¸é™¢ in Nanjing. Gwoyeu Romatzyh was able to contain tonal
information without the additional use of diacritics and tone marks.
Hanyu Pinyin in the Mainland was redundantly invented precisely for Communist idealogical reasons,
and to set its Education Ministry apart from the ROC's. Pinyin was approved in 1958 and adopted in
1979 by the PRC government.
Quote:
It has nothing to do with 五åƒå¹´çš„历å²ï¼Œ it is about Taiwan against China.
No, it isn't about Taiwan against China. The PRC was the one hell bent on being different and new
STYLISTICALLY and SUPERFICIALLY from the already reformist ROC.
smithsgj -
Thank you for this interesting historical contribution. Clearly there are political forces at play!
Gwoyeu Romatzyh is less ambiguous than zhuyin fuhao, do you mean, or than Wade-Giles or whatever
romanization system was in place at the time?
Doesn't the cataloguing requirement reinforce the argument that whatever system is used, it should
be alphabetic (as in ABC)? Otherwise, you need two systems, and the non-alphabetic system is
redundant.
I wonder why Gwoyeu Romatzyh failed? Anyone any ideas?
sunyata -
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yinyue Mike
I thought I'd play devil's advocate and point out some flaws in both zhuyin and pinyin, in fact,
both are inconsistent in some ways and each has its own strong points and faults.
Hanyu Pinyin's Faults:
*It's based on the Russian system, so a lot of the strange letters are from cyrillic, such as X
for the "sh" sound, this equates to the cyrllic letter that looks like an X with a line through
(sorry, not technical, I don't know russian).
Mike
Dood, that's complete BS! and this is coming from a Russian native-speaker. "X" in russian is
pronounces as english "H" or "KH", and NOT "SH"!
and nothing in pinyin reminds me of russian...the alpahbet - latin, not cyrillic, letter
combinations - nothing similar to russian, so you better check your sources...
oh and COMETRUE, your guesses about hiragana were pretty good, look here --->
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